And to recap what I posted on there:
===============================
I've been driving my 10 yr old Arabian gelding for little over a year now, and he's doing super...except (there's always an "except")...when we stop at intersections or exiting driveways, he's so impatient to keep moving, that he'll either start to rear, back up, or try to turn sideways, anything BUT stand still. I suspect some of it's excess energy and frustration, and for the record, he pulls this same sort of thing under saddle. Sometimes I have trouble getting him to move forward after this, he'd rather continue to back up (almost backed me into a lilac bush this past weekend), or turn around to go back the way we came. If voice commands fail, and reins on the rump don't do it, I will apply the whip to cut through the mental fog he'd wrapped himself in, and then he'll go forward.
Any ideas or clues on how to work on him to stand quietly and wait until he's told to move forward without the drama queen display?
Last night I ground drove him up and down the road, stopping in the driveway, or along the roadside (making sure no traffic was approaching), and he did put up some pretty dramatic displays, but after a while he did settle down and waited patiently for the next cue.
I drive in a two wheeled cart (thankfully, otherwise his antics would have resulted in a much more dramatic story, lol), and had switched from a half-cheek snaffle to a kimberwicke recently to ensure he halted at those intersections (but he was doing this stuff with both kinds of bits)
Thanking you in advance, wise CotH-ers!
=============================================Any ideas or clues on how to work on him to stand quietly and wait until he's told to move forward without the drama queen display?
Last night I ground drove him up and down the road, stopping in the driveway, or along the roadside (making sure no traffic was approaching), and he did put up some pretty dramatic displays, but after a while he did settle down and waited patiently for the next cue.
I drive in a two wheeled cart (thankfully, otherwise his antics would have resulted in a much more dramatic story, lol), and had switched from a half-cheek snaffle to a kimberwicke recently to ensure he halted at those intersections (but he was doing this stuff with both kinds of bits)
Thanking you in advance, wise CotH-ers!
Thanks everyone for the great advice, glad I posted! I got this horse as a relatively untrained 6 year old, so he had a lot of time to develop his own ideas on how things should be. He had no idea how to canter with a rider, how to back up under saddle, you couldn't even run with him on a lead (like for Halter or Showmanship). So all things considered, if this is the worst of his problems, he's doing pretty good.
Thank you so much for the reins-on-butt info, I needed to know that!! What you said about rein contact was very helpful...(the only stupid question is the one unasked!). I'm all for going back to basics, and I do have access to both an indoor and outdoor arena. Thing is, his arena behavior is much different than outside world behavior...because the outside world is so much more exciting I suppose.
We've made great progress in other aspects of the training, and yes, I've been told in the past that he's "messing with" me. One friend told me she gave up on Arabians because she was tired of having to outsmart her horse.
I'll definitely keep you all posted, thanks again for your input!================================================
Update
This weekend I applied the wise advice from this thread to my boy, helped by lunging him beforehand. I just ground-drove him in full harness (minus the breastcollar/tugs, didn't need those), with particular emphasis on the driveways approaching the road. He tossed one minor hissy when I first picked up the reins (which is usual), and we ended up sideways up a hill, yikes! That didn't work out!
Later in the driveway we were halted as a car whizzed by...soon as it passed, he started walking off (well, the car's gone, time to get moving!). When I halted him, he started backing up, half-reared, and began trying to turn around. Okay, you want to go that way, you can go that way! I pretty much long-reined him in a tight circle 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round and then 'round some more, ending back in the direction I wanted him in. He behaved for about half an hour...more walking up and down the road, halting, standing, cars going by, no problem.
He tried his trick two more times, and both times he found himself being long-reined/lunged in a tight circle, and was unhappy about it (good!), only to be "rewarded" with a nice quiet stand-still at the end of the drive. I don't know how much of it sunk in, but towards the end of the session, when I said "whoa" he said "how long!", lol!
And I was careful to NOT apply the reins to his butt, using my voice, and if that failed, a tap of the whip. He was working completely off my voice for moving forward by the end.
Think I'll do another ground-driving, repeating all these lessons, before hitching him up again. Thanks again for the help!
=========================================
Getting better, thanks to the wise advice found here!
Beautiful day (mostly), light breeze, horse had a good galloping trail ride yesterday, today he got round-penned to get the P&V out. Harnessed him up, and ground-drove him around the property.
The horse pulled his stunt as soon as we left the indoor arena...I halted him, and refused to stand still, started backing and trying to turn to the left. He got himself circled around and around to the left and only stopped when I told him to, facing our original direction. We stood for another minute, and he was just a'swishing his tail and stomping and pawing, carrying on but NOT moving from his place. The flies were horrible (yes, I had fly spray on him, but I apparently missed a few spots) but he stood his ground.
We walked around the yard and driveway, stopped at the road, and stood there for a few minutes. Cars went by, and he didn't make a move towards the road when they passed (remember, previously he'd start moving off as soon as the car went by, because that's what we always did!). Well, it started to rain, despite the sun shining...and then it started to rain a little harder. And then it began to POUR! Where THAT came from, I don't know, but we made our way quickly back to the indoor arena and into the stall area to wait out the rain. Rain on a metal roof is bad enough, but then it began to HAIL...poor horse about had a heart attack, bad enough wearing blinkers, but to have that deafening racket as well!
I resigned myself to the fact we couldn't drive outside after all, and when the noise let up, another boarder helped me hitch him up to his cart in the indoor arena, and I got in, and sat there. He stood quietly, not unusual for indoors. Of course within the minute the rain stopped, the skies parted and the sun came out with blue sky as far as the eye could see! Arrgh!
Slowly I drove him towards the open gate, and stopped. He stood fine. We exited the gate to the outdoors, the spot of his previous hissy. Stopped, and stood. The flies came back, and he was stomping and tail-swishing and head-tossing, but didn't budge from the spot until my say-so.
We went down the road a mile or so onto a side road, and I kept stopping him at random times, just sitting there, admiring the birds or the gardens, we were far enough from the barn that the flies weren't harassing the horse, so he relaxed too. Went maybe a mile down that road before finding a wide open driveway, and did a U-turn, and stopped.
He KNEW he had turned around, and began the temper tantrums again! He didn't WANT to stand in that driveway, he wanted to GO! Backing, a little half-rear, and then he tried to turn to the left (which is the direction back to the barn). As was advised, I turned him left, and we did a tight little circle until we came back to our original position (I made sure I was in a wide enough driveway to do that!). Again he started backing, or trying to turn to the left, again I drove him in a tight little circle to the left, and stopped. AGAIN he started fussing and taking off without my say so, AGAIN I drove him in a tight little circle and returned to the original position. After the third time around we stopped, and he stood...occasionally switching his tail or stamping a foot. Immediately moving off on my voice command (no more slapping the reins on the butt, it DOES make a difference!!)
Four or five times heading back down that road, wherever I knew it'd be wide enough, we stopped. Two or three times he threw a hissy, and got himself driven in a tight circle for his trouble, then we would halt, and I could almost see the wheels turning in his little Arabian head. "Hmmm...when I act the brat, I have to do that annoying little circle thing...but when I stand still, I get to...stand still!"
We came to the scene of our traumatic incident that sparked this thread...I eyed the lilac bushes warily. We approached the intersection, and stopped. He stood perfectly fine...no stamping, no fussing, no tail-switching! After a few minutes we crossed and headed down the road (NOT back to the barn, which probably threw him off guard...good!). The remaining 4 or 5 times I stopped him and made him stand, he did PERFECTLY! We even stood outside the barn pointing into the indoor arena, he was perfectly comfortable (except for the flies that were back). Only reason we went in earlier than I'd have liked was the threatening black sky behind us...didn't want to get caught in any more hail, thank you!
So, I'm VERY optimistic, he did so well I thought, compared to last time.
Thanks again for all the help. No more butt-slapping with the reins, I promise!
=========================================
A Quickie Update!
Took my horse out for a 3 hour drive yesterday afternoon, did a lot of back roads and woodsy dirt-road driving, and I'd give him an A- on the stopping thing. A mile or two of the back roads were actually one-lane dirt roads through the woods, so when a car approached, I was able to drive him into one of the many cut-outs on the side of the woods for this very purpose (it's a road leading to a rustic campground, so they planned ahead), and he stood like a champ as the car/truck/dirt bike slowly trundled past us, and didn't take a step until I told him to!
At the actual intersections he was equally good. He tossed his head, pawed once or twice, but NO rearing, NO wiggling, NO trying to spin to the left or right. Even at the intersection with the lilacs he stood rock solid, and I was even able to move him forward one step (and halt), one step (and halt), as we crept forward trying to see past the lilacs that blocked the view of oncoming traffic. I'm SO pleased, and again, thank you all for your help. We all need to keep in mind that EVERY drive is a training drive!
Sue & Himself
==============================
Later in the driveway we were halted as a car whizzed by...soon as it passed, he started walking off (well, the car's gone, time to get moving!). When I halted him, he started backing up, half-reared, and began trying to turn around. Okay, you want to go that way, you can go that way! I pretty much long-reined him in a tight circle 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round and then 'round some more, ending back in the direction I wanted him in. He behaved for about half an hour...more walking up and down the road, halting, standing, cars going by, no problem.
He tried his trick two more times, and both times he found himself being long-reined/lunged in a tight circle, and was unhappy about it (good!), only to be "rewarded" with a nice quiet stand-still at the end of the drive. I don't know how much of it sunk in, but towards the end of the session, when I said "whoa" he said "how long!", lol!
And I was careful to NOT apply the reins to his butt, using my voice, and if that failed, a tap of the whip. He was working completely off my voice for moving forward by the end.
Think I'll do another ground-driving, repeating all these lessons, before hitching him up again. Thanks again for the help!
=========================================
Getting better, thanks to the wise advice found here!
Beautiful day (mostly), light breeze, horse had a good galloping trail ride yesterday, today he got round-penned to get the P&V out. Harnessed him up, and ground-drove him around the property.
The horse pulled his stunt as soon as we left the indoor arena...I halted him, and refused to stand still, started backing and trying to turn to the left. He got himself circled around and around to the left and only stopped when I told him to, facing our original direction. We stood for another minute, and he was just a'swishing his tail and stomping and pawing, carrying on but NOT moving from his place. The flies were horrible (yes, I had fly spray on him, but I apparently missed a few spots) but he stood his ground.
We walked around the yard and driveway, stopped at the road, and stood there for a few minutes. Cars went by, and he didn't make a move towards the road when they passed (remember, previously he'd start moving off as soon as the car went by, because that's what we always did!). Well, it started to rain, despite the sun shining...and then it started to rain a little harder. And then it began to POUR! Where THAT came from, I don't know, but we made our way quickly back to the indoor arena and into the stall area to wait out the rain. Rain on a metal roof is bad enough, but then it began to HAIL...poor horse about had a heart attack, bad enough wearing blinkers, but to have that deafening racket as well!
I resigned myself to the fact we couldn't drive outside after all, and when the noise let up, another boarder helped me hitch him up to his cart in the indoor arena, and I got in, and sat there. He stood quietly, not unusual for indoors. Of course within the minute the rain stopped, the skies parted and the sun came out with blue sky as far as the eye could see! Arrgh!
Slowly I drove him towards the open gate, and stopped. He stood fine. We exited the gate to the outdoors, the spot of his previous hissy. Stopped, and stood. The flies came back, and he was stomping and tail-swishing and head-tossing, but didn't budge from the spot until my say-so.
We went down the road a mile or so onto a side road, and I kept stopping him at random times, just sitting there, admiring the birds or the gardens, we were far enough from the barn that the flies weren't harassing the horse, so he relaxed too. Went maybe a mile down that road before finding a wide open driveway, and did a U-turn, and stopped.
He KNEW he had turned around, and began the temper tantrums again! He didn't WANT to stand in that driveway, he wanted to GO! Backing, a little half-rear, and then he tried to turn to the left (which is the direction back to the barn). As was advised, I turned him left, and we did a tight little circle until we came back to our original position (I made sure I was in a wide enough driveway to do that!). Again he started backing, or trying to turn to the left, again I drove him in a tight little circle to the left, and stopped. AGAIN he started fussing and taking off without my say so, AGAIN I drove him in a tight little circle and returned to the original position. After the third time around we stopped, and he stood...occasionally switching his tail or stamping a foot. Immediately moving off on my voice command (no more slapping the reins on the butt, it DOES make a difference!!)
Four or five times heading back down that road, wherever I knew it'd be wide enough, we stopped. Two or three times he threw a hissy, and got himself driven in a tight circle for his trouble, then we would halt, and I could almost see the wheels turning in his little Arabian head. "Hmmm...when I act the brat, I have to do that annoying little circle thing...but when I stand still, I get to...stand still!"
We came to the scene of our traumatic incident that sparked this thread...I eyed the lilac bushes warily. We approached the intersection, and stopped. He stood perfectly fine...no stamping, no fussing, no tail-switching! After a few minutes we crossed and headed down the road (NOT back to the barn, which probably threw him off guard...good!). The remaining 4 or 5 times I stopped him and made him stand, he did PERFECTLY! We even stood outside the barn pointing into the indoor arena, he was perfectly comfortable (except for the flies that were back). Only reason we went in earlier than I'd have liked was the threatening black sky behind us...didn't want to get caught in any more hail, thank you!
So, I'm VERY optimistic, he did so well I thought, compared to last time.
Thanks again for all the help. No more butt-slapping with the reins, I promise!
=========================================
A Quickie Update!
Took my horse out for a 3 hour drive yesterday afternoon, did a lot of back roads and woodsy dirt-road driving, and I'd give him an A- on the stopping thing. A mile or two of the back roads were actually one-lane dirt roads through the woods, so when a car approached, I was able to drive him into one of the many cut-outs on the side of the woods for this very purpose (it's a road leading to a rustic campground, so they planned ahead), and he stood like a champ as the car/truck/dirt bike slowly trundled past us, and didn't take a step until I told him to!
At the actual intersections he was equally good. He tossed his head, pawed once or twice, but NO rearing, NO wiggling, NO trying to spin to the left or right. Even at the intersection with the lilacs he stood rock solid, and I was even able to move him forward one step (and halt), one step (and halt), as we crept forward trying to see past the lilacs that blocked the view of oncoming traffic. I'm SO pleased, and again, thank you all for your help. We all need to keep in mind that EVERY drive is a training drive!
Sue & Himself
==============================
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